Did Dylan and Eric know that they both had journals?

I don’t think so. Eric might’ve mentioned that he was keeping a bit of a written record to go along with the basement tapes, seeing as his journal is very clarifying timeline-wise and documents some of their preparations, but I don’t think he ever showed Dylan an entry out of it. I don’t think Eric knew that Dylan kept a journal at all – let alone what its contents were about.

I have this slightly nutcakes ‘headcanon’ that Eric only really started keeping a journal at the advice of his therapist, to help him document some of his racing thoughts and help him gain insight into his emotions. It’s not an uncommon thing for a therapist to advise in combination with the therapy sessions. The goal of keeping the journal wouldn’t necessarily be to share with anyone, but rather help streamline thoughts and feelings into new insights. Eric’s journal takes on the guise of being intended for an audience, which I think is a blend of his plans for NBK as well as something that felt “safer” for him to write because it would limit his expressions of the emotions he struggled with. He plays with his ideas and thoughts in there – it’s quite experimental, even when his ‘voice’ sounds very assured of himself. It’s something that shows how young he was, really, and how much he still had to learn. He knew that we would one day examine it, as he showcases his writings proudly during his solo moments on the basement tapes.

Dylan’s journal, on the other hand, seems to have been born out of his own need to keep one. It really is a place where he shared his innermost thoughts and feelings without holding back or downplaying them the way he did around other people. I don’t think he ever intended for this to be read. It was something that belonged to him alone: his own private lamentations. His journal was hidden in his room and not something that he intended people to find and publish. I have a hunch that he would be mortified to learn people have spent a great deal of time dissecting what he wrote. I feel like he would write in it during a time when he would be at the point of ‘overflow’, which would explain why its entries often take on a very disjointed narrative that blends many different things together at once. It’s something that reads as more personal than Eric’s journal does, which is why I’m quite certain Eric didn’t even know about its existence. His journal was for Dylan alone.

Did Eric & Dylan’s friends actually take anything from them/their belongings after they died? Like Eric told them too. I still find it shocking how casual he was about it. “If you live you can have a couple of my CDs, I mean not like it will make you think of me and give you bad memories or anything like that either.”

Quite a few of their belongings were first taken in as evidence, but later given back to their parents. It’s possible that some of their friends were later given some of their belongings, if they wanted to have them. I think it’s one of those things that can feel very dichotomous and strange as a friend: you’d want to have something to remember them by, but you’d also want to throw whatever it is square across the room if you were reminded of the shit they pulled. I think it would help keep good memories alive to have something of theirs that was not directly associated with the massacre.

I also think that the casualness of their announcements – “you guys can have our stuff if you live” – really shows how far gone they were. It feels like they didn’t even take into account that their friends might not even want to have any of their stuff after what they did.

I love you so much!!!!!!

Right back at ya, thank you! =)

Before I ask this, I am in no means making fun of trans gender people, I have quite a few friends who are trans but can you see Eric being very confused if he were alive today? Especially since when he was alive there wasn’t much trans gender people or even the topic, so if he were resurrected today I can only see a very confused Eric walking down the street saying, “but she looks like a girl, how is she a boy?” Haha

I can see him be far more than merely confused, unfortunately. I can see him be very kneejerk rejecting of the notion. He would intellectually comprehend gender dysphoria and related issues, but I have the strong impression that he would call it “unnatural” all the same. He already idiotically called homosexuality a disease in one journal entry, so I wouldn’t exactly get my hopes up about him staying quiet and respectful about transgender folks.

To be fair, I can see him get outright confused at gender identities altogether. There are rather a lot of them spoken freely about nowadays and some seem a little.. farfetched, perhaps? Back in Eric’s time, especially in the area he lived in during his teenage years, the topic of gender identity wouldn’t have been discussed much at all. A lot of what he says about homosexuality, too, is born of outright ignorance and perhaps also influenced by how he was raised.

PSA: Asks

From today onward, I will no longer answer every question or message that lands in my inbox. Aside from hoping that I can get thedragonrampant to feature more than just Q&A, I am also still struggling to reconnect in full to the case and have found that some subjects make it a lot harder for me to do that. There are other fine blogs out here that have not yet made a distinction between what they will and will not answer and may be willing to reply to some of these questions for you, but I also hope that this will be an invitation to review and seek out the evidence in order to find your own answers in some cases.

I have blogged on thedragonrampant for years and the only other distinction I had really made to date was that I will only answer personal/spiritual questions on my other blogs. (This was done to streamline the flow of questions, which has proven quite successful to date.) Now, it’s become time for me to add the following to the list:

1. Questions about how Eric and Dylan would be as boyfriends, what a relationship with them would be like, what type of girl they would like, and all variants thereof. I have previously expressed that I find the idealisation of them in this respect troublesome, but I also find it uninteresting because they were both unsuccessful in this aspect while alive and are too dead to care nowadays. My archive features plenty of posts that relate to this subject and should be comprehensive enough to form the answer you seek.
2. Any and all sexual questions you can think of. The only sex-related things I will answer and address in my posts are the ones that directly relate back to their respective journal mentions of the subject. (This includes the inane “how big were their dicks?” and all variants thereof. All that does is make me cringe on their behalf.)
3. Questions regarding if they would like a certain book, movie, tv show, videogame, or music artist. Both of their likes and dislikes in terms of pop culture are very well-documented in the available evidence. I believe that these will help you determine the answer to your own question.
4. Questions that will literally take no more than half a minute on Google to find the answer to. You will get the answer a hell of a lot faster if you type it into that magical searchbox, because it often takes me a day or more to get back to my inbox and answer things. (In other words: everybody wins.)
5. Questions about their suicides. There are a fair few blog posts of mine out there on this particular subject that I still stand by today, so my hope is that those will be enough to answer any questions you may have. I have always found it an interesting aspect to the case, but need to take my distance from it personally because it affects me too much. I have had some harrowing experiences while writing about it in the past and no longer feel comfortable speaking about Eric’s in particular.

Thank you in advance for respecting my wishes.

one of my favourite things about your blog are the goofy tags you do on some of your posts hahaha

Hah, I think it’s absolutely awesome that someone has noticed my occasional goofball tags! ^^ (And I love hearing people’s favourite things about my blog, too, so thank you.)

Why is it that I can come up with a million scenarios to try and fix Eric & Dylan yet, I’m unable to do the first thing to help myself?

I think it’s always easier to see what can change and heal in someone else’s life than it is to recognise the same for your own. It’s harder to confront your own difficulties and deal with those. We place so many expectations upon ourselves that it’s almost like we’re expecting a really, really old and falling-apart-at-the-seams racecar to go from 0 to 100 in seconds. Anyone looking at that racecar is going to say “that thing can’t live up to your expectations”, but we’re not willing to recognise that because it’s our beloved racecar and we know it once could achieve this goal no problem. It’s quite the same with ourselves when we find ourselves struggling to achieve a goal that once came easy to us, when our physical/mental/emotional states are preventing us from achieving that goal with ease, and when we put such a high expectation on ourselves that we are unwilling to consider perhaps another goal that is more attainable at present. Maybe we should recognise that our racecar needs a little polish, a little care, and a little repair and actually allow ourselves the time and space in which we can give it all of that. Maybe we should try to let it race a short practice lap rather than the many laps of a competition. Maybe there’s no shame in admitting that we need to take smaller steps toward our goal, that maybe we need someone there with us to help us do some repairs, and that we must recognise and respond to our own needs the way we also do to the needs of others.

Sometimes, it helps to see yourself outside of yourself. If you were your own best friend, what is the advice you’d give yourself? If you were your own brother or sister, what would you name as your best and worst qualities? If you were your own parent, how would you guide and comfort yourself? We’re far more forgiving of others than we are of ourselves. We are harder on ourselves than we are on others. We may sometimes even think worse of ourselves than others do, even when we are convinced that other people must see this terrible thing inside of us too. We tell ourselves many, many stories.. and only some of those stories are actually true. If we truly want to help ourselves, we should show ourselves random acts of kindness. We should respond to ourselves the way we wish the world would respond to us and the way in which we respond to others. (Of course, the latter aspect takes into account the notion that we are in fact kind and generous to other people and that we approach them with gentleness and fierceness alike.. I believe the world may profit greatly from our recognition that we are all deserving of life and healing.)

lovernotfighter1982:

tecnine:

students fleeing from the school

What street would this be taken from? @everlasting-contrast @thedragonrampant??

Judging by Google Earth.. they’re probably running past the area of the school that flows into S Pierce St. There’s a good chance this shot was taken from W Polk Ave:

Could Dylan swim? Totally random question but I’ve wondered it for a while.

Yes, there are multiple stories about him swimming in a pool with friends and the Klebolds had a swimming pool of their own. Not sure if he had any swimming lessons, but that’s not really important. ^^

Are Eric and Dylan the two large most noticeable figures on the left?

Dylan definitely is, though I wouldn’t call Eric that large. *snorts* I found Dylan the easier one to spot, but if you know Eric’s walk it’s a dead giveaway.

Here is an explanation post regarding their positions in the video.

everlasting-contrast:

Stop the press!

Forget everything you’ve ever learned about the tale of how the propane bombs were planted at Columbine High. We all know how slick and cool REB and VoDkA  came across in the famous scene of Zero Hour. They strolled into the Commons with fierce purpose shrouded in their uber school shooter dark aesthetic: black trench coats, combat boots and shades carrying their

pièce de résistance bombs in their “bags of terrorism” (yes, they referred to them as that).  Casually kneeling down and setting their instruments of terror with ease right in front of their peers. 

But in reality?  

Well, reality paints a very different picture demonstrating how banal the entire thing looked. Amazingly ordinary and casual..yet as we’ll later learn, they almost look a little too slow pokey considering their very tight schedule.

I lightened these images up and sharpened them as well.

‘Eric’ approaching the column from the left
wobbling a bit with his orange gym bag held in his right hand

A wild ‘Dylan’ lopes forth approaching the column from the left
carrying his navy blue gym bag in his left hand

Here be some ordinary looking dudes hauling their heavy but lethal gym bags near the columns in the cafeteria. ‘Eric’s’ small frame is struggling a slight bit barely managing to prevent the bag from coming into contact with objects or people walking by. The two are having no trouble being themselves, looking effortlessly awkward yet casual af while ironically implementing something deadly.. 

Of course, we didn’t really expect that level of dramatic professionalism from Eric and Dylan now did we?  Nah.. Not really.  

This is going to be long. so read on under the cut. 🙂   

Keep reading

adding on to the last anon, you could tell it was definitely him if you look closely at the boots and the way he crookedly put his left foot/leg in front of the other! Dylan’s signature walk

Hahaha yes, both their walks were a dead giveaway! I was staring at it so intently last night that I think my nose actually touched the screen for a second, lol, but these are the walks we’ve seen in other videos too and it’s fantastic to have them captured so well again. Can’t believe we all missed it before!

Is it just me, or do Eric and Dylan seem to be wearing different outfits in the footage of them carrying the bombs?

Slightly different outfits, yes. I think Eric was wearing an extra shirt (he looks a little bulkier to me than usual here), maybe to cover up that harness-type thing he wore during the massacre, and that Dylan donned a vest/jacket/shirt of some kind because his back isn’t solid black like his t-shirt was. They look like the regular kids they were. The weather was technically speaking too warm for their full gear, so it makes sense that they didn’t walk into the commons wearing their dusters and the like.

Those video evidence is amazing! It is even greater evidence when you consider the second person featured is left handed. He is carrying his backpack on his right shoulder and holding a bag with his left hand! That has to be Dylan.

It’s quite great, isn’t it? If you see the Dylan-figure in close-up, it’s fairly obvious that it’s likely to be him.. not just because of the left-handedness, but also because of the longer hair peeking out from under what I think is a hat or cap! Also, I can’t quite tell but it seems to me like Dylan had less trouble carrying the bags than Eric did.

tcnnants:

Two boys who may be Eric and Dylan caught on CCTV, carrying large duffel bags into the cafeteria. You can see them walking in from the left of the screen.

Watch C.V.A.’s video on the possibility of them being Eric and Dylan here. Watch the full cafeteria CCTV here.

The timestamp for “Eric’s” arrival is 10:58:19-39AM (24:28 minutes into the full CCTV footage) and the timestamp for “Dylan’s” arrival is 10:59:49-38AM (25:58 minutes into the full CCTV footage).

This is a truly wonderful find from CVA regarding the bomb placement that morning. I’ve always theorised it to have occurred exactly the way we see here: inconspicuously, calmly, and done by the boys themselves on the morning of. To have this confirmed by actual footage puts a big questionmark to rest. There is even one tiny moment in that footage where you can see Eric taking care not to bump into anyone or anything while carrying those bags. I found myself wishing the video had played the footage on repeat – these gifs are the next best thing!

sorry if this sounds stupid but what do you mean by ‘natural selection’? What has it got to do with Eric?

He was wearing a shirt that said “natural selection” on the day of the massacre:

Aside from that, he referred to natural selection in his journal as well:

“Hey, try this sometime, when someone tells you something.. ask “why?”. Eventually they will be stumped and can’t answer anymore. That’s because
they only know what they need to know in society and school, not real
life science. They will end up saying words to this “because! Just shut
up!”. People that only know stupid facts that aren’t important should be
shot, what fucking use are they? NATURAL SELECTION. KILL all retards,
people with brain fuck-ups, drug addicts, people who can’t figure out to use a
fucking lighter.”

“How come, if I’m free, that I can’t deprive a stupid fucking dumbshit from his
possessions if he leaves them sitting in the front seat of his fucking
van out in plain sight and in the middle fucking nowhere on a Fri
fucking day night? NATURAL SELECTION. Fucker should be shot.”

And every single fucking time I see that stuff from him, I keep going:

Nightwish – Dead Boys Poem (From Wishes to Eternity – Live 2000)

I know we had a “Dylan Klebold Rolling Playlist” a while ago, courtesy of @everlasting-contrast.. I didn’t want to have to tag anyone, but I heard this song last night again and had this moment of “well, shit, that’s quite Dylan” and thought I’d share. [lyrics here]

Nightwish – Dead Boys Poem (From Wishes to Eternity – Live 2000)

“We know that he saw Eric’s alienation tactics firsthand and it’s entirely likely to me that Dylan knew Eric would throw him under the bus at a moment’s notice if it meant saving his own skin in the process” Do you think Dylan knew Eric blamed him for the van break in? Do you think that ether had thrown the other under the bus if NBK had been exposed before hand to save themselves or would they stick together? Their friendship is so confusing to me.

I don’t know if Dylan knew that Eric pushed all the blame for the van break-in onto him. It’s possible to me that the cops went “you said that the idea came from both of you, but your buddy over there told us it was all you” during their time in arrest. Then again, it only takes half a brain to realise that Eric would want to protect his ass from his parents in any way he could. I think Dylan was aware of that aspect to their friendship somehow, as it seems fairly obvious to me as well and even Brooks went down the “let me tell you what your son’s been up to”-route when he had that fight with Eric because he knew that would affect Eric most.

A little while after the arrest for the van break-in, in March 1998, the Browns filed a report with JeffCo about Eric’s website. Who’d shared that website with Brooks? Dylan. It’s quite a sneaky way to potentially get his friend into trouble there. I do wonder sometimes if Dylan knew Eric had blamed him for the van break-in and decided to essentially get back at Eric by giving Brooks that website address. Eric would be none the wiser about who’d sold him out, so Dylan would still be in the clear with him.

If NBK had been fully exposed beforehand, I really don’t know which road they would’ve taken. It’s likely to me that they would turn all attention to saving their own skin without much care for the other in the process if one of them had leaked the plans and gotten them caught. If their plans had been exposed without their immediate involvement, then it might be likelier that they would put up a united front at first but crack eventually. They were very different people, so their style of speaking with authorities and with their families probably differed a lot as well. Eventually, one of them might leave an opening that authorities could use to figure out how those plans were created.

isthosonetaken replied to your post “Do you think Eric manipulated Dylan into committing the shooting?”

They were both equally
culpable, perhaps that’s a post that needs to be written? Nobody is
denying that they were both very unwell young men, but clarity on the
fact they knew damn well what they were doing? I can’t think of a better
or more knowledgable referee than yourself .

You also have the advantage of the dissection of the evidence, that’s only written in Dutch !!
I think we’re that available to be read in English – just going on the chapter you translated- it would clarify so much.

I always thought the equal culpability was something that kinda speaks for itself when you’ve got two kids killing people and then committing suicide together, but apparently some people really can’t get it into their heads that this is not exactly the kind of thing you can manipulate/guilt-trip/con anybody into doing when it’s not something they already had considered doing? I’m sure people are fed up of seeing my homicidal/suicidal-post by now, but it kinda goes into the mutual culpability through the explanation of their mindsets so I’m just going to leave that here as my temp-referee post on the matter. 😉

Honestly, Tim Krabbé’s book was my introduction to the case and he gives Dylan a harder time than most authors do. I was blessed to have his work walk me through what I think is like a bird’s eye view of the evidence. But I have worked my ass off since reading that to make sure I have my own solid views and interpretations of the evidence – reading a dissection from someone else only takes you part of the way in, but it’s not until you read it for yourself that you really begin to put two and two together. I’ve learned things through posts and comments and messages here on TDR so much that I think that’s where the clarification comes from: by talking about it until you’re blue in the face and discussing it until you’re almost screaming. Perhaps it’s been an advantage that my introduction to the case was softer on Eric and harder on Dylan, though, who knows?

I’d like to get a bit more insight into your answer for ‘do you think Eric manipulated Dylan’. Have you never thought that it could be true? Not exactly that he manipulated but he sort of ‘made a deal’. Dylan wanted to die, he wanted to kill himself yet I believe he was too afraid to do it alone. Do you think Eric could possibly have made a deal with him, Dylan helped him to create Natural Selection and he would be there by his side so he wasn’t alone when he died?

I’ve considered every possibility, of course. I don’t think you can shoot anything down when you haven’t at least examined it to see if there’s any possible truth to it. It’s the choice of words that frustrates me – the word “manipulates” suggests that one had more power over the other and lured the other to their doom. Kind of like Dylan being the lamb led to slaughter. It gives Eric so much control and agency that I don’t believe he had. It skews their relationship into something I don’t think it ever was. It creates this power imbalance to suggest such a thing, while the one thing that made Columbine work was that they balanced out each other’s strengths and weaknesses.

The thing is, I’ve tried to come up with something that would make me understand the “make a deal”-aspect that some people believe in. But I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would agree to homicide if all they felt was suicidal. Suicidal feelings are strong enough to make you kill yourself and yourself alone. I don’t think those necessarily translate into a willingness to kill anyone else unless the desire to hurt others like you have been hurt is present too. If Eric had presented that plan to Dylan and Dylan wasn’t feeling homicidal whatsoever, I don’t think anything – not even the fear of dying alone – could’ve pulled Dylan into agreeing with committing homicide. They’re two vastly different mindsets that don’t always go together. I find the alternative, of Dylan presenting NBK to Eric, quite a tantalising thing to examine too. Why would we assume that Eric was the one to push forth the plan? Because he was the one working his ass off to execute it? Dylan expressed homicidal and suicidal ideation on a regular basis too – what makes people so sure that Eric was the one to coin the idea?

I also think that this “make a deal”-aspect completely denies Eric’s own feelings of suicidal ideation in addition to ignoring Dylan’s homicidal aspects. It’s not a “you help me and I help you” sort of thing. It’s a “we’re in the exact same boat together” thing. Eric was outwardly homicidal and inwardly suicidal. Dylan was outwardly suicidal and inwardly homicidal. If you marry those two mindsets to one another, they will have an NBK baby together. It’s an equal relationship with equal responsibility.