Friendly reminder that Dave Cullen runs the biggest Brokeback Mountain Fandom Forum
This is the best thing I’ve seen all freakin’ year, lol. Next time on the chapter-by-chapters, I’ll probably tell Dave to write Brokeback Mountain fanfic instead..
I’m almost crying with laughter here gods help me.
The amount of time I have spent in the mindspace of Eric Harris lately is mildly concerning at this point.. It’d help if I didn’t have the ra-ra-mamabear feelings about the guy, you know?
(Read: I have had it up to fucking here with the psychopath approach and I need to spend some time away from the kid’s journal asap.)
Okay, I will only say the following thing once. I won’t go and drag the whole tag into an endless discussion on who has what kind of right to do anything and who needs to shut the fuck up and so on and so forth. It’s not my place to tell you what you should think or feel or believe. What I do want is to stop generalising this shit to the point where everyone is a fucking fangirl and everyone wants the babies of two dead mass murderers, okay. I want to make it clear that nobody’s life is ever meaningless.
What happened at Columbine was awful. What has been happening in schools and in other places before and since is awful. A lot of families lost their loved ones. A lot of people will never get to hold their children or their parents again. A lot of people will have come out of this with nightmares, trauma, etc.. and a lot of people will have suffered immensely from the impact of these events. All of the deceased will never move beyond these years of their lives and go on to see what else is out there in life for them. All of the deceased lost the most valuable thing in the world to these events: their own lives.
So, what about their killers? I think it’s a very telling thing that so many (young) people from around the world are so preoccupied with the stories from Columbine and the lives of the two killers involved in this case. While I may not fully understand the flailing about these boys that goes on in this tag sometimes, I do understand that feeling of finding something ‘in common’ with them and wanting to understand what brought them to this place where they were able to commit such an act. I think it is important that we not only remember Columbine, but also try to learn from it and hopefully one day have gathered enough knowledge and common sense to make sure no other family has to lose their loved one to something like this. Were the lives of Eric and Dylan ‘worth nothing’, as I’ve seen someone state just now, or were they something we should acknowledge and allow ourselves to have those feelings of loss/grief/anger/etc about? I think it’s the latter. I certainly think they threw their lives away. I certainly believe that they, too, could’ve gone on to do something better with their lives than this. I don’t condone what they did. What they did makes me sick. But I do know that these boys are mourned just as much by those who loved them, that their thoughts and actions can teach us differently so we don’t fall into the same patterns over and over again, and that none of us have the right to say that anyone else’s life was meaningless. You may not agree with what these people did with their lives, but that doesn’t mean their lives don’t carry some sort of meaning and purpose inside them. Not everyone can play the hero. “Sometimes the monsters win” is a pretty apt phrase.
It’s a worrying thing in and of itself that so many people do not only find an interest in the case that lasts for months/years, but that most of these people also find a kinship in themselves with these two boys who took their own lives and the lives of thirteen other people that day. It’s worrying that some of this turns into an almost hero-worshippy thing. It’s worrying that our society apparently is so dysfunctional that some of us can find comfort, strength, and recognition in the writings and lives of Eric and Dylan. It’s worrying that a case that’s almost fifteen years old is still so relevant today.
So what if this tag is a safe haven for those who recognise themselves in these boys or have a serious interest in the case? I’d rather have everyone here squee over their pictures than find out that someone from this tag hurt someone else or themselves. I’d rather have everyone pour over the minor details from the 11k or watch their videos on repeat than have someone decide life’s pointless or that nobody deserves to live. I’d rather see you guys at the Columbine memorial one day than have to visit your graves. I’d rather have us all learn and grow from our common interest and go on to do great things in our lives than have you throw away everything and have you become like the boys.
You know that phrase Mr D likes to quote at everyone? “We are Columbine”? I think he’s got a point, there. We may not have gone to that school. We may not be a part of that community. But we are, for better and for worse, changed and impacted by Columbine. We are touched by the lives of the victims. All of the victims, whether they were killer or actual victim on the day itself. We are giving new voices to an older story, spreading it and expanding upon it with different knowledge and ideas, and we are keeping all of their memories alive.
I can’t help but see that as a good thing.
“This site has recorded 387 school shootings since 1992. That is 387 tragedies. Some get national attention, some don’t, but they are all devastating.”
Okay this is probably going to be a really fucking long list, guys. I’ve tentatively titled it Part One of “Lies JeffCo told ‘me’” in my head, because this can really go on forever and ever and I’m sure most of you have plenty of things to add..
Here are some things to get the ball rolling.
…
Another good one. I guess I’ll just go down the list throwing in my penny’s worth.
-I think the copycat excuse for not releasing The Basement Tapes is bullshit, too. The only plausible excuses they might have is that it would be hard on Eric & Dylan’s families, especially Dylan’s because, as his mother was talking about in Far From the Tree, it makes him seem pretty bad. And, even though Eric supposedly cries/shows other vulnerabilities, his comments like “thank god they crucified that asshole [jesus]” still sounds bad I think, even if you aren’t a Christian. Also, 14 years has been a while, it would still be a fairly fresh wound to reopen for survivors. Maybe, hopefully, in years down the road it won’t seem “as bad” to release them for those reasons. Like everyone else here, I would love to see them.
-I sure hope Jeffco has taken steps to preserve the tapes. I can’t imagine them actually doing away with the tapes, but who knows w/ them.
-I don’t think the transcripts are complete. Even w/ the summarizing, it still seems like there should be more to it if the tapes are as long as they say. I’ve also wondered if they’ve even disclosed the correct amount of tapes there were & how long they last.
-I’ve always found it odd that one guy came up w/ a (postmortem) diagnosis & it seems like many of the others just go along w/ him, I guess cuz it’s easier. That leads alot of the journalists/authors/etc. to just go w/ it as well cuz that’s what the “experts” say. And, as others have mentioned, I don’t know why there’s no scratching beneath the surface w/ Eric—I believe anger/rage is often derived from insecurities, hurt, depression, etc. Perhaps Eric’s depression & suicidality manifested/expressed itself in the form of anger & hate. And pegging Dylan a follower makes it sound like the boy didn’t have a mind of his own. Dylan was intelligent & could think for himself, although it appears he desperately needed someone to lean on. His depression & suicidality manifested/expressed itself in the form of loneliness & shyness (that’s not implying he wasn’t genuinely lonely & shy, people—lol). But they both had commonalities that brought them together. Maybe Dylan was “attracted” to Eric because he could identify with Eric’s rage & finally express his own. Maybe Eric was “attracted” to Dylan because he could identify with Dylan’s depression, the deeper part of himself {Eric}, & finally try to express his own. But then again, maybe, esp. us gals, are reading too much into it. The tapes were made for an audience & we have to keep that in mind. They could have just been showing off for the camera or they could have genuinely been ‘feeding’ off each other. It’s all speculation & that makes it so fuckin annoying; cuz armchair psychology only goes so far lol.
-It upsets me as well that the police force/sheriffs dept/SWAT Team/etc. couldn’t do more to help those children (& staff) before it was too late. I understand they were not familiar w/ the layout of the school, & that the shooters were moving, & that they were unsure of how many shooters there were, & that they were concerned about the explosives. I’m sure law enforcement had families &, as human nature would have it, hesitated before going into a life-threatening situation. But, it was their job & surely they knew the possible scenarios before getting into it. It’s things like this that make people lose faith in those sworn to protect us.
-Totally agree they should have kept their mouths shut (esp. to the press) until they had more detailed & accurate information.
-“What the fucking hell do I have to do around here to get my hands and eyes and everything on the basement tapes?” Yep. ‘whose dick do i gotta suck to get new footage of Dylan?’ HAHAHA
**just want to take this opportunity to point out, as I usually try to do, that the views expressed in my comments are only the opinions of me & are subject to change w/o notice 🙂
It would be hard on their families, agreed, but when has JeffCo ever done anything that remotely suggested their empathy with any family involved in the case? (I have to read Far From The Tree.. everything I see from it, I love. Cheaper paperback coming in October, yay!) It’s actually funny you should mention Eric’s comment, because it’s one of the very few that we do have audio from.. It’s a really jarring comment that would definitely alienate a fair few people. (I’ve personally always thought that people’s blind loyalty to their religion was what got to him. It’s maybe not so much a rejection of religion outright, but rather a rejection of the ‘indoctrination’ he saw everywhere around him.)
Let’s just hope JeffCo will one day prove to be more competent than I give them credit for. I hope I’ll be alive to see it. Maybe I’ll be an old lady with a walking stick screaming through the nursing home “WE GOT THE TAPES WE GOT THE TAPES!” and doing a little jig.
What would be on the parts we haven’t been told about, then? I suspect there’s a lot more to the story. It fucking kills me we don’t get this part of the information. =( (I think a part of it was showing off and a part of it was genuinely them feeding off each other. It’d be interesting to see the dynamic between Eric and Dylan away from their friends and everybody else. We have really little to go on in that regard and those freakin’ surveillance tapes don’t give much away in that respect either.)
The problem I have with the widespread psychopath-follower theory is that I can think of at least one alternative interpretation that makes a fuckload of sense. I can certainly see that Eric had some psychopathic traits, but the question is if he had the traits because he was a genuine psychopath or if he had the traits due to a number of circumstances/his struggle to deal with himself. (Eric’s so fascinating I’m not even gonna lie. The things I would do to be able to have a really long conversation with him.. Okay we would probably end up in a shouting match because he pisses me off half the time but still.) There’s no way we can know any of this psychbabble for sure. Everyone comes up with an interpretation that makes sense to them and I think it’s important to recognise that not one interpretation is more meaningful or true than the other. I do think that there were commonalities between the two the way you described it (for the record, I do agree with you on your interpretations of them =)) and that this helped them build their relationship. It’s just really fucking annoying to me that the one theory I can’t quite get behind is the one theory the general public eats up.
Why, though, weren’t they familiar with the lay-out of the school? The school had been remodeled years prior to the massacre, sure, but certainly law enforcement and other ‘first responders’ should have been roughly aware of where everything was? Or find someone who could tell them, such as Mr D? I’m sure there was quite a bit of concern for their own safety, but in no way does this explain the way they approached this..
LOL, I was more thinking along the lines of who do I have to impersonate/manipulate/show my tits to.. xD JeffCo, seriously, give us girls a break and give us one scene or something? (Hint: if it’s the one where Eric’s shirtless you’ll have shut half the tag up for at least a year..)
Okay this is probably going to be a really fucking long list, guys. I’ve tentatively titled it Part One of “Lies JeffCo told ‘me’” in my head, because this can really go on forever and ever and I’m sure most of you have plenty of things to add..
Here are some things to get the ball rolling.
They’re not releasing the basement tapes. Why? Because the FBI said so. Why did the FBI say so? Because they’re scared that other kids will think “oh this is a good idea yeah I’ll totally do the same thing”. Let me ask you a thing, then. Did school shootings magically disappear because you didn’t give us the damn tapes? No. They’re still here. They’re more and more prevalent now than they were back then. So what’s holding you back?
Do you even have the tapes, JeffCo? Did you save them into your nifty little pit of despair you like to call your system? Did you put them on a disc once it became clear nobody was going for this VHS-thing anymore? Are you keeping them in a box? In a safe? In a gateway to hell guarded by three dragons and dear old angel Zachariah? (What’s that? You haven’t seen Supernatural?) Did you decide, though, somewhere down the line.. “oh, who’s going to want these tapes?”.. “yeah let’s just throw them away shall we?”.. or am I giving you the worst of all ideas possible right now?
Is the transcript of the tapes even complete? It seems to me that all those hours of film don’t quite translate so well onto a transcript that doesn’t take that long to recite and mimic.. Are there any scenes you’re omitting from public knowledge? And why? If there’s omission involved, why not omit the crying bits for one thing? If you want the whole damn world to believe that this was the masterwork of a psychopath..
.. speaking of, did it ever cross your mind that maybe (just maybe) you needed more than one mental health professional on the case? Now, I’m not saying Dwayne didn’t do his job. He was competent enough, wasn’t he? Handed the reasons why to you on a silver platter. It all sounded that easy. One kid was the brain and the other just got pulled in to party. But maybe you needed somewhere there to say “hold up wait a sec” and put a different spin on things? I know you like things to be cookie-cutter, JeffCo, but I think you dropped the ball.
Another thing. When there’s a school shooting in progress, you don’t form a perimeter. You don’t try to contain everyone inside that damn school. You make sure SWAT has actual current-day information on where everything is inside that school and that they, oh, I dunno, don’t enter the school on the opposite side of where they actually should be. You make sure that when you see a sign “one bleeding to death”, you send the help those people need any which way you can. You had a goddamn open line to the library and you fucking knew where the shooters were you gross incompetent little.. *grabby hands*
Also, for the love of everything, haven’t you ever heard of keeping your mouth shut until evidence concludes you’re right? Making assumptions about weaponry and shooters really isn’t a strong thing to do. ALSO. Will you please please please brush up on something very important I like to call PEOPLE SKILLS and communicate with the families of the people who died in a respectful and open manner before they find out from the media/others that their loved ones are never ever coming home again?
Rant concluding thusly, for now: what on earth terrified you so much in two boys that you thought staying outside was the safer option, what on earth possessed you to act the way you did throughout the day and throughout the investigation, and what the fucking hell do I have to do around here to get my hands and eyes and everything on the basement tapes? (I’ve probably ruined my chances forever by going off at you, huh. Oh well.)
Why didn’t you testdrive your own schedule for 4/20 to see if everything worked out timeframe-wise? (Surely you’d have to know if you could make it from place to place doing all the stuff you needed to do in that time..)
Why put off buying that damn propane until the last morning? What the fuck…
I think the gist of all your points here translates to the fact that though intelligent for their age, they were young, naive, idealistic and miscalculated many things. Their tardiness on the day of may have been subconscious hesitation and vacillation.
Yes, pretty much. Their age would certainly have a lot to do with the fact that none of it was planned out more. Still, you’d think that the thing the plan hinges on would’ve been tested and retested somewhere down the line. Was it just miscalculation? Sloppiness? What on earth was it? And if there was subconscious hesitation (which I’m fond of, by the way) then that would explain a lot.. which brings me to question such unearthly things as height of victim count and actions on the day itself in general. Every new point made raises twenty more, you know?
The Dragon Rampant: Some things about 4/20 I need to discuss with you boys..
Why didn’t you testdrive your own schedule for 4/20 to see if everything worked out timeframe-wise? (Surely you’d have to know if you could make it from place to place doing all the stuff you needed to do in that time..)
Why put off buying that damn propane until the last morning? What the fuck would you have done if they’d run out of it?
Why didn’t you allot yourself a little more time to actually make the bombs and make sure they were wired correctly and whatever? With something this important, surely you’d not go out on a limb and assume that they worked okay? (Dude this was a botched-up job seriously.)
What did you actually do morning-of, and why were you late to everything?
Was there ever a time during the day itself where you were like “okay this is a sucky idea jesus why didn’t we get our shit together earlier”?
Did you ever even expect the bombs to detonate or were you just wishing really really hard that they would?
Why was there no solid plan B? You were running around like headless chickens in that school, for fuck’s sake..
Why go back to the library? Convenience, wanting to look upon your actions one last time, or sentiment, or what?
Were your suicides by your own hands ‘spurs of the moment’ now that death by cop was no longer an option and nothing else that would’ve ensured your death worked out so well either? (This is particularly something for Eric, though..)
Was the whole affair a disappointment, or still something you – I dunno – take pride in or something?
When did you ‘come down’ from that initial high? Was this really, hand on your hearts, everything you’d ever wanted to do? Shouting it at the top of your lungs is not the same as believing it.
Who said what during the massacre? Did one of you ask the other if they were still ‘with you’ on this?
What do you really, honestly, think about the leader-follower theories and about your respective shitty diagnoses/interpretations of your characters? Which parts are true and which parts can be binned?
*throws hands in the air* The things I would give to be able to have this conversation and other conversations..
“There is a large rest of the story” about those cases, said Sally Blanchard, the school district’s south area administrator. “I am limited in what I can say. I’d love to say what happened.”
Blanchard noted that Huerter’s report was based on talking to 15 current and past students in a school population that amounted to more than 3,000 since 1996.
Huerter’s report found:
- Killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were “often” harassed by the jocks because they were loners and didn’t have the protection in numbers of the so-called Trench Coat Mafia, a group they didn’t belong to.
- A jock who admitted ethnically intimidating a Jewish student continued to do so for a year and a half after the jock was arrested. The Jewish student said the school administration treated him like a liar when he reported the continuing torment. It was only resolved after the father forced a meeting with the jock and school administration, and he crafted an agreement between his son and the jock.
- School officials gave strong endorsements to a football player for admittance to a university even though he had a long history of harassing an ex-girlfriend, who had to obtain a restraining order against the boy in 1999. The university’s president said he was told by Columbine staff that the restraining order was dropped because of a lack of evidence.
Blanchard said incidents involving that student were still under investigation and that the staff endorsements weren’t “that glowing.” Kowalski said the boy was never prosecuted.
My face when I read Dave Cullen mention that Eric was a ladies man over and over in his book.
Okay, this is perfect. I’d like to add this one as my own reaction:
So, I want to be a cop, and right now I’m studying crimes, criminals, human behavior, etc. Right now I am currently studying the Columbine high school shooting, and I need good resources. Are there any good books/documentaries? Do NOT recommend the book Columbine by Dave Cullen, I’ve heard that…
No Easy Answers is probably the first thing that’d get recced by anyone on the tag. Peter Langman’s (he wrote the book Why Kids Kill) got some decent stuff as well, and one of the best resources out there is (unfortunately) still the mountain of information provided by JeffCo. I would actually recommend Cullen’s stuff when you want to know more about the victims/families/community/chaos of the day itself, but you might get enough of an impression of that hellhole of a book through reading the chapter-by-chapters I do on my blog. =) I’ve also posted some stuff from the Dutch book We Are But We Aren’t Psycho, which hasn’t been translated yet, so that might be of help. Documentary-wise, I really liked the episode of Zero Hour and The Columbine Killers. Tag-wise, acolumbineblog has a lot of decent information available as well.
Hope this helps! =)
If you want to know how bad the police response was, go rent ‘Gone With the Wind,’ and watch the entire thing. It took the police longer than that movie to get Dave Sanders, who was bleeding to death, out of that classroom. That’s too long and unacceptable.
The seniors in our theatre troupe decided to produce a special video for Frankenstein. Not only was it a farewell project for the drama students, it was a farewell to Mrs. Caruthers, who had been one of our favorite teachers over the past four years.
For the first part of the tape, we did interviews with the cast and crew about their favorite memories of Mrs. Caruthers. We then added in footage from rehearsal, along with scenes from the movie Young Frankenstein.
Dylan, Zach Heckler and I were the three people who did “commentary” for the tape. The three of us sat down in the front row of the Columbine auditorium and set the camera down on the stage. Our job was to review all of the people in the Frankenstein program and offer both compliments and “inside jokes” that only those involved in the department would understand. Later we would inter-cut the footage with scenes from Young Frankenstein and show the finished version to other people in the drama club.
It was a lot of fun to make, and the camera caught a few moments of Dylan coming out of his quiet shell. We went backwards through the program, reading each name and offering a few observations. The first name Zach read off was Principal DeAngelis.
Dylan leaned in toward the camera. “Ha ha ha,” he said.
The three of us roasted each other as much as we could. Dylan, who had sat quietly through some of the early jokes, happily came out of his shell for ribbing on me.
Dylan gave special mention to the makeup crew. “Damn good job,“ he said. “Brooks, you were ugly as shit. And that’s hard to beat, with the way you look normally.”
“I was uglier than I even am usually.” I agreed.
“Don’t get fire within twenty feet of the pants,” Dylan warned, referring to my ‘Frankenstein monster” costume. “There were about thirty different chemicals put into that.” (This was true, actually. Dylan and I made the pants using an old pair of jeans that we soaked in gasoline and paint thinner to make them look as horrible as possible. After the final performance, we took them out to a field and flicked a cigarette at them. They immediately burst into flames.)
“Zach, how did this guy do on sound?” I asked, referring to Dylan.
“Oh, he sucked,” Zach replied.
Dylan threw his hands up. “Thank you!”
“And everybody was crying about it, because it was late,” Zach added. Dylan hadn’t finished preparing the sound cues by Mrs. C’s original deadline.
“Yeah, yeah,” Dylan said. “I’d like to bring forth attention to this, actually – for three years now, I’ve been doing this job. Just a guess here, but I think I know what I’m doing—“
“Okay, shut up,” I said. We all laughed.
That was how the video went. We picked out names, made a few good-natured jokes, then complimented the person and moved on. We had especially kind words for Mrs. Caruthers, whom all three of us were going to miss.
“You’re losing your entire sound and light crew,” I said to the camera. “This will be the last play we get to do with you.”
The three of us asked for bribes in exchange for passing along our knowledge to the next crop of students. “Hey, Mrs. C, next Saturday – big ol’ party,” Dylan said. “Heineken, Miller… We need you.” It was a running joke for theatre students to try and get Mrs. Caruthers to buy booze for us, because we knew she never would.
We offered our thanks to Mrs. Caruthers for her inspiration. “From the people who have been working with you the longest, we want to say, very beautiful job with all the plays,” I said.
“Very well done,” Dylan added. “All of these kids over the years – I don’t know how, but … you put the whole thing together.”
“You’ve taught us how to work on our own,” I said. “We really did this play on our own, and it was fantastic. And we owe it to you, Mrs. C.”
After the final performance that night, everyone from the show watched the video. My mom took pictures. There was Dylan, laughing and having a good time. Just like everyone else.
—Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers, Chapter 9, Suburban Life
Eric David Harris,
I didn’t know the person hiding under your smile. I didn’t know about the pain you carried in your heart. I didn’t know the torture you endured for so long. And I didn’t want to believe you were capable of such destruction. I didn’t know I could feel such pain for someone I really didn’t know. If I knew what your eyes hid, and what your mind was screaming, maybe I could have helped you. I could have loved you. All I know is the pain I am feeling inside. All I know is the person I talked to everyday, the person who seemed happy, the person who always helped me and made sure I had everything I needed. I see your picture on the pages, they say what a monster you are, they say how you were mean and cruel. But you see, I can’t believe what they say. I knew the smiling person, the person who helped me. I don’t want to hear it anymore. I want it to go away, the angry cries well up in me and I hate you for making me so scared and sad. Leaving me without any explanation. Leaving me with wandering thoughts and hollow cries. Did you try and reach me? Did you try to tell me? I will live with the memories and the unanswered questions I hold in my heart. Not a day will go by that I will not wonder why. As times goes by, I am getting stronger, but then the moment comes when I break down and cry. I am so sorry I didn’t see the rage you had inside. I am sorry I was so blind and couldn’t see all the things you tried to show me. No matter how wrong you were, I will love the person who smiled and said “Hi" to me everyday. I promise to never forget the person I knew, and forget the person they say you were.
Love Always and Forever,
Susan DeWitt
This is a fantastic article that not only reminds me of him, but also supports my earlier thoughts on him. A very interesting read. =)
I thought how much easier it would be just to give up, stay there and let somebody come get you or whatever would happen to you, but every time those thoughts came in my mind, I thought about all the people that I would be giving up on. It was really the friends and family I would be letting down that kept me going.
Ok, I had to draw it. – Camila
This is the cutest shit I’ve ever seen! Awwe!!!
Lol
Something I’ve noticed, NIN in the red, KMFDM in the blue, but did that ballsy little shit really put NBK on his backpack? In the yellow.
NBK or WAR.. I’m not sure. (Ballsy little shit either way, though.)
Columbine 